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Traveller-digest    Saturday, December 11 1999    Volume 1999 : Number 1478<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: The Rise and Supposed Decline of the RPG Empire<BR>
Re: technology advances<BR>
Re: There goes our salvage... and car!......<BR>
Re: Deserts (wwas re: the stresses of being a grunt)<BR>
Re: Institutional Memory<BR>
Re: Newbie question<BR>
Re: Mass communication, the nobility and epistemology (LONG)<BR>
Re: The Rise and Supposed Decline of the RPG Empire<BR>
Re: Salvage One<BR>
Re: The Rise and Supposed Decline of the RPG Empire<BR>
RE: Active RPGing<BR>
Re: Mr. Zeigler's first SJG book?<BR>
Re: Salvage 1<BR>
Re: There goes our salvage... and car!..,<BR>
Re: Institutional Memory<BR>
Re: Re Munchkins<BR>
Re: Well guys, there goes our salvage...<BR>
Snakes!<BR>
re: Munchkins<BR>
Re: Prize vs Salvage<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 18:05:15 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: The Rise and Supposed Decline of the RPG Empire<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Magic in Call of Cthulhu:<BR>
>     Real Men - don't believe in magic<BR>
>     Real Roleplayers - cast Elder Sign<BR>
>     Loonies - cast Summon Smurf<BR>
>     Munchkins - cast Control Cthulhu<BR>
<BR>
Quote from something I read ages ago:<BR>
<BR>
"'Summon Demon' is a first level spell. '*Control* Demon' is a ninth<BR>
level spell."<BR>
<BR>
:-)<BR>
<BR>
> Favorite Star to put a colony world:<BR>
>     Real Men - Beta Lyrae<BR>
>     Real Roleplayers - Alpha Centauri<BR>
>     Loonies - Cygnus X-1<BR>
>     Munchkins - whereever gives them the most benefits<BR>
<BR>
"What star does Krypton orbit?" :-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 18:55:24 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: technology advances<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> At 09:27 PM 12/5/99 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
>>----- Original Message -----<BR>
>>From: Bruce Macintosh <bruce.macintosh@worldnet.att.net><BR>
>>> >Yes, I know page 48 says K'Kree scientists were<BR>
>>> >miraculously able to advance 2 tech levels in a mere 25 years<BR>
>>> Humans went from TL6 (1950s) to TL8 (1990s) in 40 years, so it<BR>
>>> isn't completely implausible (although a little brisk, I admit.)<BR>
>><BR>
>>Perhaps K'Kree science was ahead of their culture.  Many societies have<BR>
>>trouble embracing advances in technology.  If new breakthroughs were sitting<BR>
>>on a shelf or restricted to lab testing because their populace was resistant<BR>
>>to change then a sudden, necessary change in attitude brought about by<BR>
>>Contact would suddenly change the paradigm.  Experimental technology could<BR>
>>be quickly implemented and a new focus on the subject could concentrate<BR>
>>efforts to make the next breakthrough.  Sounds like a one-time thing, not<BR>
>>sustainable by any stretch.<BR>
<BR>
>         Keep in mind that racial survival is a powerful motivator.  We<BR>
> figured out how to escape our own atmosphere in the name of national<BR>
> survival....<BR>
<BR>
No, we *figured out* how to do that before WWI.<BR>
<BR>
We didn't actually do the *engineering* until the 60s. But we *could*<BR>
have had a man on the moon as early as the 30s if anyone had been<BR>
willing to pay for the testing and construction of the rockets.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 13:31:17 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: There goes our salvage... and car!......<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Brandon Cope <copeab@hotmail.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Saturday, December 11, 1999 2:32 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: There goes our salvage... and car!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> So the used car dealer gets to keep the money? Or does he get to go to<BR>
> prison for dealing in stolen goods?<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
This was one of the fields of my copper mate.  If the dealer purchased the<BR>
vehicle in good faith and the police cannot prove otherwise, he's just as<BR>
innocent as the next fella.  So he keeps the money.  However, if it's a case<BR>
of, "This is the 12th time one of Honest Harry's Used Cars has turned up<BR>
hot..." then I suspect the law may get suspicious.  Remember, I'm not a<BR>
copper, a car dealer, or a lawyer.  I am just mentioning what I know<BR>
happened to my sister, nearly happened to a friend, and what has appeared on<BR>
various current affair shows (you know how they wheel the same stuff with a<BR>
different presenter out yearly?) and some newspapers.<BR>
<BR>
- -- The Roc<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 22:39:20 EST<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Deserts (wwas re: the stresses of being a grunt)<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 12/9/99 6:23:01 AM Pacific Standard Time, <BR>
SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< While I'll agree with you on the mosquito nets, don't most deserts<BR>
 get pretty chilly at night?<BR>
 <BR>
 Or is that just North Africa? >><BR>
<BR>
Get's pretty f*****g cold here in Vegas at night in the winter...:-)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 21:42:38 -0600<BR>
From: William Barnett-Lewis <wlewis@mailbag.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Institutional Memory<BR>
<BR>
 <BR>
> Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 19:19:06 EST<BR>
> From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
> Subject: Institutional Memory<BR>
> <BR>
> Gentles,<BR>
> <BR>
> <<  Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 10:22:59 -0900<BR>
> From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
> Subject: [none]<BR>
> <BR>
>>> Here's something posted by Bruce from over two years ago:<BR>
>>> <BR>
>> <BR>
>> Damn, so _this_ is what it feels like to blow an aging roll...I don't<BR>
>> remember that at all!<BR>
>> <BR>
>> Bruce Johnson<BR>
> <BR>
> Welcome to the world of Institutional Memory. The IM of the TML seems<BR>
> fairly long... And, BTW, I remember that post from it's original posting to<BR>
> the TML... >><BR>
> <BR>
> Just out of curiouslty, who here remembers the controversy that erupted when<BR>
> I first signed up to TML?<BR>
<BR>
I don't - I damn sure wasn't here then. Please tell us kids the story<BR>
Grampa!!!<BR>
<BR>
More seriously, - Please?<BR>
<BR>
Thanks,<BR>
<BR>
William<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Live without fear; your Creator loves you     | William Barnett-Lewis<BR>
as a mother. Go in peace to follow the good   | mailto://wlewis@mailbag.com<BR>
road and may God's blessing be with           |<BR>
you always.                                   |<BR>
St. Claire                                    |<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 22:07:07 -0600<BR>
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Newbie question<BR>
<BR>
On 12/10/99 at 11:13 PM,  "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au> said:<BR>
<BR>
> Hi all,<BR>
>Is this the applicable list for Megatraveller? If so, can anyone tell<BR>
>me the URL for the MegaTraveller erratta if it is still extant?<BR>
<BR>
Yes, this is as good a place as any to discuss MegaTraveller.  As<BR>
for a compilation of *all* MT errata...inquiring minds want to know.<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 21:09:07 -0700<BR>
From: cos 90 <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Mass communication, the nobility and epistemology (LONG)<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>Like I said, the problem isn't whether or not they embrace it, the problem<BR>
>is how the technology will impact society, or public life. I'm not saying<BR>
>that it's not just poor manners, I'm also not saying that cellphones and<BR>
>laser pointers cause people to act like asses. I am saying that the<BR>
>introduction of laser pointers and cellphones into my moviegoing experience<BR>
>has severely impacted it.<BR>
<BR>
You and I have different experiences with the same technology. The<BR>
most fundamental difference between you and me are our respective<BR>
nationalities. Same tech, different actions. So I don't think one can<BR>
blame the tech.<BR>
<BR>
>> Any kid who tried that up here would immediately have their<BR>
>>telephone confiscated.<BR>
><BR>
>Fair enough. It sounds like the Canadian government is combating the effects<BR>
>of the technology. In other words, they've considered the option, and set a<BR>
>course of action.<BR>
<BR>
Which is at least better than avoiding the tech entirely...<BR>
<BR>
>> That's just the touchy-feely, left-leaning, politically-correct media<BR>
>> in control. I don't think it's a technological issue.<BR>
><BR>
>No, it's not the *message* itself that I was concerned about, but I didn't<BR>
>make myself clear, and I sort of went off into a little rant. The fact is<BR>
>you can't teach morality like a commercial.<BR>
<BR>
True. But are the sound bytes reinforcing what someone has (hopefully)<BR>
learned elsewhere all that bad?<BR>
<BR>
>> (It's strange how many people, seeing that I'm a fan of SF and<BR>
>>comics and animation and high-tech stuff, immediately conclude that<BR>
>>I'm also an Anime fan. Nope.)<BR>
><BR>
>That's funny, I figured that since you're a fan of sci-fi, comics, and<BR>
>animation that you'd also be a big fan of anime! ;)<BR>
<BR>
Not me. In fact, I have a fair-to-middling dislike of the stuff.<BR>
<BR>
("But it's just that you haven't found the *right* anime", I can<BR>
hear the response... a response I've been hearing for nearly 20<BR>
years now.)  :)<BR>
<BR>
>> >Clefable! Clefable!<BR>
>><BR>
>> "Clefable"???<BR>
><BR>
>Sorry, it's the name of one of the Pokemon that local kids run around and<BR>
>screech.<BR>
<BR>
Gaack. It's gotten you too. Run!<BR>
<BR>
>> I often wondered that myself. And her also being (formerly) one of<BR>
>>the high-ups in the Canadian arm of CAR-PGa, the pro-RPG<BR>
>>advocacy group. (Formerly, since when she moved out of Canada to<BR>
>>the US she had to drop her position within the Canadian arm of the<BR>
>>organization, of course.)<BR>
><BR>
>That's awfully odd, not that she had to give up her position, but that she<BR>
>was involved in such an organization.<BR>
<BR>
And she was a very fanatical member thereof -- not surprising, given that<BR>
she was one of the Canadian high-ups. Possibly even *the* key person in<BR>
Canada. I couldn't take an RPG advocacy group seriously because I don't<BR>
see the need for it -- society generally doesn't take the anti-gamer group<BR>
seriously...  <BR>
<BR>
As usual, boy have we ever gone OT... :-D<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada <BR>
cos90@powersurfr.com  http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn<BR>
        "There is no longer any normal to be"<BR>
                                 -- Gary Numan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 23:14:27 EST<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: The Rise and Supposed Decline of the RPG Empire<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 12/9/99 1:14:36 PM Pacific Standard Time, <BR>
jsnead@netcom.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<<  With the upcoming release of 3rd edition<BR>
 D&D and the big Hasbro marketing push which will accomany it, I think this<BR>
 boom will continue and expand. <BR>
  >><BR>
<BR>
Your lips to G-d's ears....:-) <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 21:15:02 -0700<BR>
From: cos 90 <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Salvage One<BR>
<BR>
>I seem to remember a 70\'s TV show called \"Salvage One\" where a junkyard<BR>
>owner and his improbably handsome sons built a multi-use rocket IN THEIR<BR>
BACK >YARD which they used to recover \"junk\" from the moon, and then to<BR>
get into >all kinds of scrapes and adventures....<BR>
><BR>
>Anyone else remember this, or was it just an awful dream?<BR>
<BR>
I remember it. Barely. It starred Andy Griffith, before he did Matlock.<BR>
Word has it, it's a series he'd rather forget... :-D<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada <BR>
cos90@powersurfr.com  http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn<BR>
        "There is no longer any normal to be"<BR>
                                 -- Gary Numan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 23:21:12 EST<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: The Rise and Supposed Decline of the RPG Empire<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 12/9/99 6:25:19 PM Pacific Standard Time, <BR>
jlindsay@home.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< <BR>
 But, by far the best answer comes from one Mark Campbell: >><BR>
<BR>
Is this the same Mark Campbell that designed Close Action?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 22:20:47 -0600<BR>
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Active RPGing<BR>
<BR>
On 12/10/99 at 11:12 AM,  Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca> said:<BR>
<BR>
>J2K writes:<BR>
>>>I'd wager money that most of the people on this list, even though<BR>
>>>they consider themselves roleplayers, aren't currently involved in<BR>
>>>a campaign.<BR>
<BR>
>>Not me. I'm GM:ing 2 campaigns and as a player in some 6-7 campaigns<BR>
>>played alternatively. <BR>
<BR>
>	Nor I.  I'm GMing an active campaign with 4 players.<BR>
<BR>
Same here.  I'm in several and GM a couple of PBEM's myself.  <BR>
<BR>
It's quite possible the majority aren't playing right now, but they<BR>
could be if they really wanted to, by email if nothing else.<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 23:39:52 EST<BR>
From: JFZeigler@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Mr. Zeigler's first SJG book?<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 12/10/99 4:54:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, semo@pil.net <BR>
writes:<BR>
<BR>
>  What was your first SJG book?<BR>
<BR>
GURPS Greece.  And you all want to go out and buy a copy, if you don't<BR>
have one already.  It's useful for those, um, Hellenophile cultural <BR>
revivialists<BR>
who colonized several worlds in, uh, Magyar sector.  Back during the<BR>
Rule of Man.  That's right. . .<BR>
<BR>
:-).<BR>
<BR>
- ----------<BR>
Jon F. Zeigler: Mathematician, computer geek, amateur historian, freelance<BR>
writer, occasional scribbler of bad poetry<BR>
"For any statement, no matter how innocuous, there exists a nonempty<BR>
set of people who will take offense at it."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 22:42:58 -0600<BR>
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Salvage 1<BR>
<BR>
On 12/10/99 at 09:41 AM,  Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU> said:<BR>
<BR>
>Not Andy Griffith, Lloyd Bridges. <BR>
<BR>
Sorry Bruce, it was Andy, and the oh-so-dangerous fuel was<BR>
mono-hydrazine.  I thought the pilot movie was a hoot...if *only*<BR>
getting into orbit was something that could be done with a junk-yard<BR>
ship built from a cement mixer, a gas truck's tank and old tires.<BR>
Of course, *if* he'd had a CG module or two in the Vulture...<BR>
<BR>
The series was a disappointment.  I wanted a base on the moon, trips<BR>
to the asteroids, a show about the real opening of the "high<BR>
frontier." That wasn't what we got. ;-<<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 15:16:13 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: There goes our salvage... and car!..,<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: The Roc <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Saturday, December 11, 1999 12:54 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: There goes our salvage... and car!..,<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> But a direct answer to your question of "Can Walt recover his money from<BR>
the<BR>
> dealer who didn't do his homework?" would be, "No."<BR>
><BR>
> -- The Roc<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
D'oh!  Sorry, that should have read "But a direct answer to your question of<BR>
"Can Walt recover his money from the dealer who didn't do his homework?"<BR>
would be, "No." in Australia at least."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 21:17:23 -0800<BR>
From: "James W. Lindsay" <jlindsay@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Institutional Memory<BR>
<BR>
On Fri, 10 Dec 1999 19:19:06 EST, GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Gentles,<BR>
> <BR>
> <<  Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 10:22:59 -0900<BR>
>  From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
>  Subject: [none]<BR>
>  <BR>
>  >> Here's something posted by Bruce from over two years ago:<BR>
>  >><BR>
>  ><BR>
>  >Damn, so _this_ is what it feels like to blow an aging roll...I don't<BR>
>  >remember that at all!<BR>
>  ><BR>
>  >Bruce Johnson<BR>
>  <BR>
>  Welcome to the world of Institutional Memory. The IM of the TML seems<BR>
>  fairly long... And, BTW, I remember that post from it's original posting to<BR>
>  the TML... >><BR>
<BR>
I don't keep all old posts, just the ones I envision using sometime again<BR>
in the future.  I emailed the munchkin post to a bunch of friends, hoping<BR>
that one in particular would clue in and realize that there is more to role<BR>
playing than min/max'ing.<BR>
<BR>
> Just out of curiouslty, who here remembers the controversy that erupted when <BR>
> I first signed up to TML? <BR>
<BR>
I can't remember what I had for breakfast.  Give us a clue.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
James W. Lindsay       Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada<BR>
"http://members.home.net/jlindsay"   ICQ:7521644 (Sharkey)<BR>
<BR>
"Honk if you've slept with Riker."<BR>
           -- typical Starfleet shuttlecraft bumpersticker<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 21:18:37 -0800<BR>
From: "James W. Lindsay" <jlindsay@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Re Munchkins<BR>
<BR>
On Fri, 10 Dec 1999 15:30:53 PST, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
> <BR>
> > Coax them gently, and they tend to come around. The stubbornest I've met,<BR>
> > however, was a man who was the non-gamer to his avid-gamer wife. He became<BR>
> > a rules lawyer from HELL. So bad, in fact, that no one wants to game with<BR>
> > him. And he'll only play AD&D 2nd, and only FR or DL settings, and won't<BR>
> > tolerate even the minorest of house rules, deviations from print, or<BR>
> > interpretations which conflict with his (unless backed up in Dragon).<BR>
> <BR>
> Anybody who tries *that* level of "rules lawyering" in a campaign *I*<BR>
> am running will get shown the section of the rules that states the GM<BR>
> is free to alter or interpret rules any way he chooses. If that doesn't<BR>
> work, he or she will be shown the door.<BR>
<BR>
Question: Why don't rules lawyers ever remember *those* particular rules?<BR>
Selective memory, I would think.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
James W. Lindsay       Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada<BR>
"http://members.home.net/jlindsay"   ICQ:7521644 (Sharkey)<BR>
<BR>
"Honk if you've slept with Riker."<BR>
           -- typical Starfleet shuttlecraft bumpersticker<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 00:01:58 -0600<BR>
From: Richard Wilson <rtwilson@rollanet.org><BR>
Subject: Re: Well guys, there goes our salvage...<BR>
<BR>
At 09:43 PM 12/9/99 PST, you wrote:<BR>
>In mail you write:<BR>
><BR>
>> At 02:56 PM 12/8/99 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
>>><BR>
>>>An insurance company could be a patron, if it's<BR>
>>>cheaper to send a few PCs to look for a ship than to<BR>
>>>pay the claim. <BR>
>>><BR>
>>>--Glenn<BR>
>><BR>
>> Hi, my name is Banachek. <BR>
>><BR>
>> Sigh. I loved that show.<BR>
><BR>
>Me too. Remember the one where a "mail car" disappeared from the<BR>
>*middle* of a train at night?<BR>
><BR>
>Sohows like that, "Mission: Impossible" and a few others are the sort<BR>
>of thing to watch if you want to drive the players nuts. <BR>
><BR>
>-- <BR>
>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
> shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Wasn't it a flatbed railroad car carrying a prototype car? Either way, the<BR>
various episodes show the importance of mis-direction when trying to do<BR>
something illegal.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Richard Wilson<BR>
<BR>
rtwilson@rollanet.org<BR>
<BR>
========================================================================<BR>
Humanity is not something we should aspire to. It is something we should<BR>
strive to overcome.<BR>
========================================================================<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 23:49:07 -0600<BR>
From: Richard Wilson <rtwilson@rollanet.org><BR>
Subject: Snakes!<BR>
<BR>
A little something I found on the web. How would different branches of the<BR>
Imperial Military react when all are presented with an identical problem?<BR>
<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
- --------<BR>
<BR>
The Differential Theory of US Armed Forces (Snake Model) upon<BR>
encountering a snake in the Area of Operations (AO) <BR>
<BR>
   1. Infantry: Snake smells them, leaves area. <BR>
<BR>
   2. Airborne: Lands on and kills the snake. <BR>
<BR>
   3. Armor: Runs over snake, laughs, and looks for more snakes. <BR>
<BR>
   4. Aviation: Has Global Positioning Satellite coordinates to snake.<BR>
      Can't find snake. Returns to base for refuel, crew rest and manicure. <BR>
<BR>
   5. Ranger: Plays with snake, then eats it. <BR>
<BR>
   6. Field Artillery: Kills snake with massive Time On Target barrage<BR>
      with three Forward Artillery Brigades in support. Kills several hundred<BR>
      civilians as unavoidable collateral damage. Mission is considered a<BR>
      success and all participants (i.e., cooks, mechanics and clerks) are<BR>
      awarded Silver Stars. <BR>
<BR>
   7. Special Forces: Makes contact with snake, ignores all State<BR>
      Department directives and Theater Commander Rules of<BR>
      Engagement by building rapport with snake and winning its heart and<BR>
      mind. Trains it to kill other snakes. Files enormous travel settlement<BR>
      upon return. <BR>
<BR>
   8. Combat Engineer: Studies snake. Prepares in-depth doctrinal<BR>
      thesis in obscure 5 series Field Manual about how to defeat snake<BR>
      using counter mobility assets. Complains that maneuver forces don't<BR>
      understand how to properly conduct doctrinal counter-snake ops. <BR>
<BR>
   9. Navy SEAL: Expends all ammunition and calls for naval gunfire<BR>
      support in failed attempt to kill snake. Snake bites SEAL and retreats<BR>
      to safety. Hollywood makes fantasy film in which SEALS kill Muslim<BR>
      extremist snakes. <BR>
<BR>
  10. Navy: Fires off 50 cruise missiles from various types of ships, kills<BR>
      snake and makes presentation to Senate Appropriations Committee<BR>
      on how Naval forces are the most cost-effective means of anti-snake<BR>
      force projection. <BR>
<BR>
  11. Marine: Kills snake by accident while looking for souvenirs. Local<BR>
      civilians demand removal of all US forces from Area of Operations. <BR>
<BR>
  12. Marine Recon: Follows snake, gets lost. <BR>
<BR>
  13. Combat Controllers: Guides snake elsewhere. <BR>
<BR>
  14. Para-Rescue Jumper: Wounds snake in initial encounter, then<BR>
      works feverishly to save snake's life. <BR>
<BR>
  15. Supply: (NOTICE: Your anti-snake equipment is on backorder.) <BR>
<BR>
  16. Transport pilot: Receives call for anti-snake equipment, delivers<BR>
      two weeks after due date. <BR>
<BR>
  17. F-15 pilot: Mis-identifies snake as enemy Mil-24 Hind helicopter<BR>
      and engages with missiles. Crew chief paints snake kill on aircraft. <BR>
<BR>
  18. F-16 pilot: Finds snake, drops two CBU-87 cluster bombs, and<BR>
      misses snake target, but get direct hit on Embassy 100 KM East of<BR>
      snake due to weather (Too Hot also Too Cold, Was Clear but too<BR>
      overcast, Too dry with Rain, Unlimited ceiling with low cloud cover<BR>
      etc.) Claims that purchasing multi-million dollar, high-tech<BR>
      snake-killing device will enable it in the future to kill all snakes and<BR>
      achieve a revolution in military affairs. <BR>
<BR>
   19. AH-64 Apache pilot: Unable to locate snake, snakes don't show<BR>
       well on infra-red. Infrared only operable in desert AO's without power<BR>
       lines or SAM's. <BR>
<BR>
   20. UH-60 Blackhawk pilot: Finds snake on fourth pass after snake<BR>
       builds bonfire, pops smoke, lays out VS 17 to mark Landing Zone.<BR>
       Rotor wash blows snake into fire. <BR>
<BR>
   21. B-52 pilot: Pulls ARCLIGHT mission on snake, kills snake and<BR>
       every other living thing within two miles of target. <BR>
<BR>
   22. Missile crew: Lays in target coordinates to snake in 20 seconds,<BR>
       but can't receive authorization from National Command Authority to<BR>
       use nuclear weapons. <BR>
<BR>
   23. Intelligence officer: Snake? What snake? Only four of 35<BR>
       indicators of snake activity are currently active. We assess the<BR>
       potential for snake activity as LOW. <BR>
<BR>
   24. Judge Advocate General (JAG): Snake declines to bite, citing<BR>
       grounds of professional courtesy. <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Richard Wilson<BR>
<BR>
rtwilson@rollanet.org<BR>
<BR>
========================================================================<BR>
Humanity is not something we should aspire to. It is something we should<BR>
strive to overcome.<BR>
========================================================================<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 00:42:35 -0500<BR>
From: "Smith, Walter" <SmithW@hartwick.edu><BR>
Subject: re: Munchkins<BR>
<BR>
James Lindsay wrote:<BR>
>>>>>>>>>>>><BR>
> Anybody who tries *that* level of "rules lawyering" in a campaign *I* <BR>
> am running will get shown the section of the rules that states the GM <BR>
> is free to alter or interpret rules any way he chooses. If that doesn't <BR>
> work, he or she will be shown the door. <BR>
<BR>
Question: Why don't rules lawyers ever remember *those* particular rules? <BR>
Selective memory, I would think. <BR>
>>>>>>>>>>>>><BR>
I think it's appropriate for a player to take the rules as written,<BR>
until the GM tells her otherwise. Yes, the "GM has final say" rule<BR>
trumps any other text in the book, but a player can't make *any*<BR>
character or piece of equipment without being able to trust the <BR>
applicable rules. Now, if the GM hasn't been clear about which<BR>
particular rules are applicable...<BR>
<BR>
Writing that, I've seen GM's who never even let a player *see* the<BR>
rulebook, much less allowed them to make something rule-tweaky with<BR>
it. "How can I get a faster starship?" <roll, roll, roll> - "You<BR>
ask Feldzarr the Engineer NPC, he says your ship is as fast as you<BR>
can get." "Why?" <roll, roll, roll> - "Your character blows his<BR>
Engineering roll, you don't know why."<BR>
<BR>
It's a matter of expectations, of course. I recall seeing a Champions<BR>
(superhero RPG) campaign planning sheet, which gave new players a<BR>
combination of hard & fast character creation rules ("no one can<BR>
have defenses that make their hero perfectly immune to normal bullets")<BR>
and campaign expectations ("the heroes will be relatively unknown<BR>
vigilantes in a city where corruption and crime are rife, morality<BR>
of the stories will be in shades of grey..."). I really liked that<BR>
idea, and stole (er, "expanded") it for use with other kinds of<BR>
campaigns as well.<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 22:41:25 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Terry Mixon <tlmixon@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Prize vs Salvage<BR>
<BR>
- --- "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
 <BR>
> In the case of a vessel which has been stolen, but was taken <BR>
> as legitamate prize, the 3 month probate on vessels IMTU <BR>
> applies; The lien holders or owners may reclaim the ship <BR>
> within three months of it's recovery, assuming the theft <BR>
> was within one year prior to recovery. If they do, they must <BR>
> pay fair salvage value (10% of fair market value at time of <BR>
> theft) plus costs (Charter fees plus food, fuel and ammo <BR>
> expenses) as a finder's fee. And the theft report to the <BR>
> local admirality at point of discovery of the theft must <BR>
> accompany such claims.<BR>
 <BR>
That assumes that stolen velssels have the information sent <BR>
through the x-boat network and would be a good time frame <BR>
in that light. However, while three months is enough to find out <BR>
if it was stolen, it is not always enough time for the owners <BR>
to get there to reclaim the property. That depends on how <BR>
far away they are as well as how long ago the vessel was stolen <BR>
and should be taken into account by the Admiralty in setting the <BR>
probate time frame.<BR>
<BR>
Also IMTU stolen propery is stolen property. If you find a <BR>
ship in space with all hands dead and it turns out that the <BR>
ship had been hijacked years ago then the ship is still stolen <BR>
property and belongs to the original owners or their heirs, <BR>
unless paid of by insurance. In that case, the insurance <BR>
company owns it. The finders are still entitled to a prize <BR>
fee of 10% of the vessels appraised value. If the old owners <BR>
cannot pay, then the vessel must be sold and the prize paid. <BR>
The remainder goes to the owners or their heirs. If the vessel <BR>
had been stolen so long ago that no owner or heir can be found <BR>
in a reasonable time, as determined by the Admiralty court, then <BR>
it becomes the sole property of the finders.<BR>
<BR>
Terry<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Thousands of Stores.  Millions of Products.  All in one place.<BR>
Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1478<BR>
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